Transcript: Episode 5

The Light Ahead Podcast

Episode 5: Home

Makia Martin (00:04):

Welcome to The Light Ahead, a fiction podcast that investigates the question what would 2030 look like if the US had an economy that truly worked and cared for everyone? The US has an imagination gap when it comes to the economy. We generally think that we have to choose oneism or another, like capitalism or socialism. But the reality is our options are as diverse as those who can dream them. Because we continually create the economy every single day with our actions and choices.

Makia Martin (00:44):

This podcast is designed to help us all practice expanding our economic imaginations. To take us out of the what is and help us dream what could be. A production of Avalon: Story and Beloved Economies. Each episode was co-created by a Hollywood screenwriter and a change maker at the cutting edge of transforming our economy. For this project, we didn't ask them to tackle the question of how, but rather to dream using the magic of storytelling to help us all imagine possible futures.

Makia Martin (01:25):

I'm Makia, your guide as we venture into future timelines filled with possibility. In today's episode, we'll explore what home truly means. In particular for African-American families and individuals that have so often faced displacement from our homes driven by economic forces for generations. We'll join a young woman as she takes her grandmother to visit a neighborhood that has changed drastically since her family was forced to move out decades before.

Makia Martin (01:56):

Throughout this story, you'll hear a conversation between myself and this episode's writer and director, Melissa Murray, about what inspired the creation of this story. For now, make sure your preconceptions are powered down and your mind is unlocked and in the expansive position. This is home.

Speaker 2 (02:28):

Grandma? Grandma, are you ready?

Speaker 3 (02:35):

Not yet Kara.

Speaker 2 (02:39):

You're not even dressed. Did you change your mind?

Speaker 3 (02:42):

I don't know why you want me to come with you. Feels like I'll just slow you down.

Speaker 2 (02:47):

My interview is in the town you grew up in. There's no way I could go without you. You used to go on and on about your childhood home. Wouldn't it be nice to return?

Speaker 3 (02:57):

Depends on what I'll be returning to.

Speaker 2 (02:59):

I heard they fixed it up.

Speaker 3 (03:01):

Code four we gentrified the hell out of it. The last thing an old woman needs to see is her childhood home turned into a PB&J shop.

Speaker 2 (03:10):

I don't know, when they revamped the community reinvestment act I think it was a genuine push to correct what's been done to black communities.

Speaker 3 (03:21):

That's what we thought with the housing act. Then the first community reinvestment act. Then again with these urban renewal programs. Each policy contributed to black people losing their homes and driving us out of our own communities. The government has always been more focused on putting a band-aid on the problem instead of addressing the issue at the root and at the root there's a huge wealth disparity.

Speaker 2 (03:46):

Well, I don't disagree but we also need to have a little faith. When great grandma and grandpa moved from Mississippi to Illinois they hoped opportunity was there but they had no physical proof, they had to see it for themselves. Sure enough they ended up settling in Brooklyn, Illinois, the oldest black town in America.

Speaker 3 (04:04):

What happened after they bought their first home? My childhood home? What happened to that community? Sometimes faith can be misplaced.

Speaker 2 (04:13):

Grandma.

Speaker 3 (04:14):

I don't know why you want to do all that driving anyway. There's plenty of jobs here in Chesterfield.

Speaker 2 (04:19):

Well jobs don't always equate to real opportunity. My instincts tell me there's something going on in Brooklyn worth checking out. Look, if it turns out to be a dump, we can come right back.

Speaker 3 (04:31):

Right back.

Speaker 2 (04:33):

Yes ma'am.

Speaker 3 (04:35):

All right. Come help me get ready.

Speaker 2 (04:38):

Yes.

Makia Martin (04:47):

We'll be back to the story in just a moment. For this episode I have the pleasure of interviewing Melissa Murray, the episode's writer and director. Melissa, I really enjoyed listening to your episode because I believe that the idea of home especially being a black person in America is for a lot of us you don't know that much. I have a lot of friends that can tell me that their family held back to Ireland and I don't, I know as far as great-grandmother which my entire family is still in the same city that my great-grandmother grew up in. That's as far, I don't know where my people came from. That's why I really love your story. It made me think of my great-grandmother a lot and anything that she told me I soaked up because that was home to me is getting stories from her.

Melissa Murray (05:42):

The intergenerational conversation that some of us are able to have with our grandmothers and others aren't I think is super important. That's what forms legacy. That's how we keep our culture going, is how we keep certain recipes, certain sayings and I think for me in the script it was like, well, if we're going to have a conversation about home you have to include the people who came before you and what home meant to them then what it means to you and having that conversation I think.

Speaker 3 (06:19):

You're driving like a bat out of hell, slow down some.

Speaker 2 (06:22):

Sorry, we're running a little behind. I want to make sure we have enough time to check out the neighborhood before my interview.

Speaker 3 (06:29):

Kara, I really want you to adjust your expectations. Things are going to look drastically different from the brochure.

Speaker 2 (06:37):

I'm not expecting a black utopia you know.

Speaker 3 (06:41):

I think expecting black anything might be a bridge too far at this point in time.

Speaker 2 (06:49):

What exactly happened to your childhood home? I know great grandma and grandpa lost the house.

Speaker 3 (06:54):

They didn't lose the house. It was taken from them. Back then, loans and mortgages looked so different for black folks. They only gave us land contracts so my parents technically didn't own the home until it was fully paid off. If they missed a payment then whoever owned the home could cancel the loan and we'd have to move out. My father never ever missed a payment. Matter of fact, he often paid in advance but one day the bank claimed that they never received payment and canceled the loan.

Speaker 3 (07:28):

I remember standing outside of my home with all of my things around me. My father pleading with whomever would listen that he sent the money to the bank. My parents stressed home ownership. It was their north star. It was a surefire way to build wealth and legacy. They thought they would pass the home down to me and I'd pass it to y'all. But they forgot to look at the fine print. The developers wanted that land, they found ways to push black folks out and it was all legal.

Speaker 2 (08:06):

Kick starting gentrification.

Speaker 3 (08:08):

Right. And we saw the writing on the wall. Lots of construction sites, new faces in the neighborhood, heavier police presence, but my parents were adamant that as long as they paid their way, they'd be okay. They found out green wasn't enough of a cover for black.

Speaker 2 (08:31):

You think that happened to the whole neighborhood?

Speaker 3 (08:34):

I know it did.

Makia Martin (08:45):

In this story, her grandmother's home was taken from their family because of a shady predatory behavior by a mortgage company. That is one way that people's homes have been taken from them but a huge cause of African American families losing their homes during the 60s, 70s and even more into the recent decades have been urban renewal. The city governments compensated the property owners at base bottom rates then sold the properties to developers at a big profit.

Makia Martin (09:20):

This loss of not only one's home but one's whole community is devastating. It can take families generations to recover. One aspect of home I was so moved by was how the story shows that what makes a home is so much more than a house. The story honors that there is much more than we need to actually feel at home. For you Melissa in thinking about creating this homecoming, what were the elements that were important to you to weave in, to make this about actually coming home feeling at home?

Melissa Murray (09:59):

Part of me associates home with peace. Whatever's happening in the outside world you're able to come home, take off your clothes, watch some TV, relax, sink into your own place. I think especially for black people that's a little bit hard when even the outside is able to get in your home. It's just hard tune things out. You turn on the TV it's like, "All right. I'm watching friends. There's no black people here. That's fucked up." There's just no way to escape that. I was thinking of a place that's like, well, what does it feel like for black people to walk down the street and not have to actually worry about just simple things like the Karens and all those other elements that fuck up your day when he's like, I already had a bad day.

Melissa Murray (10:41):

Well, for the sake of this conversation I think for me it was, what is life like without white supremacy hanging over your head and how do you create that within the fabric of a society? I think for me it was well, the air feels different so let's talk about having music in the air, having people say, good morning, good afternoon. Having people looking you in the eye, going in the shops where it's like, I'm welcomed here. Then also bringing someone from an older generation into this society. What does it look like through their eyes even though this place is amazing for the daughter the grandma's looking at it like, "All right, what's really about to happen here? What's creeping through the shadows?" That cynicism which I think is valid.

Speaker 2 (11:32):

What's going on?

Speaker 3 (11:34):

There's some toll to get into Brooklyn.

Speaker 2 (11:37):

I didn't read anything about that.

Speaker 3 (11:39):

Well I'm looking at it.

Speaker 2 (11:44):

I wasn't aware there was a toll fair.

Speaker 5 (11:48):

No toll fair. Everyone entering Brooklyn is required to do community service. Enjoy your time in Brooklyn.

Speaker 3 (11:57):

Oh my.

Speaker 2 (12:00):

This is cool. For our community service they want us to spend an hour at the town fair.

Speaker 3 (12:16):

This parking lot used to be a toy store.

Speaker 2 (12:20):

Really?

Speaker 3 (12:22):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:27):

I don't think I'll have time to do the full hour before I can make this interview.

Speaker 3 (12:36):

Kara, look at this, a damn PB&J shop. What did I tell you?

Speaker 6 (12:42):

Can I help you all with something?

Speaker 3 (12:44):

You work here?

Speaker 6 (12:45):

No, I own it.

Speaker 3 (12:47):

How long has this shop been here?

Speaker 6 (12:49):

About 10 years now.

Speaker 3 (12:51):

10 years?

Speaker 6 (12:52):

Yes ma'am.

Speaker 2 (12:54):

Why PB&J sandwiches?

Speaker 6 (12:56):

Growing up it was all we ate and not always by choice. We couldn't afford a real dinner. Our family ate PB&J. Sometimes you had it for all three meals. For me and my friends PB&J symbolized poverty. I wanted to flip the symbol and take the shame out of it so I opened a gourmet PB&J shop. Everything is made fresh. Try a sample.

Speaker 2 (13:23):

This is so good.

Speaker 3 (13:26):

It is.

Speaker 2 (13:27):

How long did it take you to secure funding for a business like this if you don't mind me asking?

Speaker 6 (13:31):

Not long actually. Brooklyn has a small business program that helps business owners get their ideas off the ground and they gave me the seed money. The rest of it came from the community.

Speaker 3 (13:41):

We'll take two to go please.

Speaker 6 (13:44):

You got it.

Speaker 2 (13:45):

A community can't thrive unless it takes care of its people. Its basic math.

Speaker 6 (13:51):

Y'all have a good one.

Speaker 3 (13:55):

Let's take a detour. I want to check something out.

Speaker 2 (13:58):

Okay.

Speaker 3 (14:06):

They actually did it. They fixed up Boland Park. Kara, when I tell you this used to be the worst part of my childhood, this park used to be a big old trash heat. The smell was so bad I'm almost certain it took some years off of my life. You couldn't avoid it because it was smack dab in the middle of town. It was everyone's embarrassment to share. The only part in town had a swap for a lake and a trash heat for grass. It really showed us what our public servants thought of us.

Speaker 3 (14:43):

I can't believe they truly fixed this place up and not only fixed it, but empowered the community to make it into a real home. I'm sad I wasn't here to see the evolution of this place, to be a part of it. I'm grateful I got to experience more of the world but man, my dream was always to come back and settle down here.

Speaker 2 (15:13):

Come on. I want to show you something.

Speaker 3 (15:17):

But what about your job interview?

Speaker 2 (15:19):

It can wait.

Speaker 3 (15:36):

My childhood home, looks just as beautiful as it did growing up. It actually looks a little bigger than I remember it.

Speaker 2 (15:47):

Go inside.

Speaker 3 (15:50):

What?

Speaker 2 (15:51):

Grandma go inside.

Speaker 3 (15:53):

Can we do that?

Speaker 2 (15:55):

Of course, you can. You own it?

Speaker 3 (15:59):

What? Kara, don't play with me. I don't understand, how?

Speaker 2 (16:09):

As a part of the community reinvestment act, they're returning homes to the families that were displaced.

Speaker 3 (16:15):

And your job interview?

Speaker 2 (16:18):

There was never any job interview.

Speaker 3 (16:21):

Kara. A dream fulfilled never quite feels the way you think it will.

Speaker 2 (16:38):

Is that good or bad?

Speaker 3 (16:40):

Neither. My dream felt so big when I was a younger woman working just to keep a roof over my head. But now that I'm here, it just feels ordinary. We're in the fight of our lives for ordinary things. How crazy is that? This might be the nicest kitchen I've ever stepped into.

Speaker 2 (17:05):

It wasn't nice when you were a kid?

Speaker 3 (17:08):

The house was a fixer upper. There was always something broken or needing repair. I swear we spent more time fixing things in this house than sleeping in it. It will be nice to finally rest in here. I can still smell my mama's cooking and hear jazz playing in the background as my father prepares the dinner table. There is a lot of love flowing through this house many years later.

Speaker 2 (17:41):

I have one last thing to show you.

Speaker 3 (17:47):

Kara, this garden.

Speaker 2 (17:50):

I planted every flower here for you. You're going to have to keep them watered though.

Speaker 3 (17:57):

I think I can handle that.

Speaker 2 (18:00):

That's not even the best part. See that connecting house.

Speaker 3 (18:04):

Yes.

Speaker 2 (18:05):

It's mine. I got into Brooklyn's small business program and they gave me seed money to start my business here.

Speaker 3 (18:13):

I'm so proud of you baby. This day has been a reminder that liberation is just within arms reach. All we have to do is dream.

Speaker 2 (18:27):

To our new home.

Speaker 3 (18:29):

To our forever home.

Makia Martin (18:40):

Melissa, I know that for this episode you were inspired initially by your conversation with Jessica Norwood about her organization, Runway, and their work to support, "Black entrepreneurs, to thrive in a reimagined economy rooted in equity and justice." Jessica mentioned the concept of home and ways in which a reimagined economy could feel like a coming home. What is it about the concept of coming home that spoke to you personally and what led you to centering the story on a grandmother who has her childhood home returned to her?

Melissa Murray (19:19):

I've been thinking about this concept of home for a while and especially in recent years within the black diaspora we're having all kinds of discussions about what home means. I think specifically to African Americans it's like, where is my home exactly? My family's from the Caribbean and I hadn't up until recently realized what a privilege it is actually to know that my family is home.

Melissa Murray (19:44):

For me home is very specific so I think for me in this story specifically it was just like, all right, well, if we can create a place in the future where you can go back to actually where let's say the furthest member of your family lived and you can actually build a home, a family there, what does that actually mean for you and your family? What does that mean for you and your identity and then work backwards from there. It's like, all right, now that we know where we're from what does that actually mean for our culture? What does that mean for across diaspora? How does that affect how we relate to each other?

Makia Martin (20:17):

One thing I love about this story is that when we talk about the concept of reparations, there is so much more that is possible than just a check in the mail. In your work Melissa both as an artist and a screenwriter and also in your own activism, how have you thought about the concept of repair?

Melissa Murray (20:38):

That's a question I've been thinking about a lot. To me it really starts with self, and there's a lot of repair that has to happen with self before you go out into the world and try to think about what I can fix in other communities and other places. I think for me, especially in the last couple of years, I've been focusing on the repairing of trusting other people and trusting the community so I can actually give to my community. I think as we talk about this script for me it was definitely based on you can't come into someone else's home, even if you're from there, the grandmother that's actually where she grew up.

Melissa Murray (21:12):

You still have to give something back then not working yourself to the bone to this thing. It's like, all right, well, I know I don't have the capacity on Wednesdays to give this thing I need Wednesdays for meditation and Wednesdays to watch movies, eat ice cream, do that but I think repair always feels like a big word where it's like, I have so many things to fix and it's like, don't think about it as fixing at all. If you want to be in community, find ways to be in community, just find ways through your own self to be in it.

Makia Martin (21:42):

I'm really moved by what you're saying. That part of what repair is about out is also about healing within ourselves before we try to fix things outside ourselves so that we can actually be real and be whole with each other and feel well, at home. As a screenwriter I often think about how fiction can play a role in this healing, in helping us move us toward healing futures. What's your take on that Melissa?

Melissa Murray (22:18):

We don't have enough content that's about what can the future looks like? It's really hard to digest all these things about the past about specifically all the horrible things that have happened to us in the past. It's like, all right, well, what are some bread crumbs we can leave for the future? I think that having that framed in that way of just all right, well, this is just about in your wildest dreams in a positive future what does it actually look like?

Melissa Murray (22:45):

Having that ability to dream that I think for me is really exciting and having that ability to imagine that it's exciting, things change every day is about change. It was just there's a positive change that's somewhere in the future, there has to be. It can't just be where we are now, pandemic, COVID all this horrible things back to back. There has to be. It's the balance of life. I think focusing on the other side of the balance is really dope and I hope people are able to take something from it.

Makia Martin (23:22):

Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed your trip into the future and can now see The Light Ahead a little more clearly. The Light Ahead is a production of Avalon: Story and Beloved Economies based on six years of research in collaboration with over 100 groups across the US. The beloved Economy's campaign is sharing stories, practices, tools, and tips to expand imaginations of what is possible for our economy. Avalon: Story is a center of practice based in Ketchum, Idaho to help birth the future of story by investigating two questions. What does story need to be to build us a bridge to a more beautiful future? And what does the business of story need to be to serve as a vehicle for the same?

Makia Martin (24:15):

The Light Ahead is a Beloved Economies and Avalon: Story production made in partnership with FRQNCY Media. I'm your host Makia Martin. The Light Ahead was co-created by Jess Rimington and Naomi McDougall Jones, who is also our showrunner. It is executive produced by Naomi McDougall Jones of Avalon: Story, Joanna Cea and Jess Rimington of Beloved Economies. Lila Yomtoob and Michelle Khouri of FRQNCY Media. It is produced by Heidi Roodvoets and Jordan Resiery, and co-produced by Lauren Ressler and Sonia Sarkar of Beloved Economies. The fiction portion of this episode was produced by Avalon: Story written and directed by Melissa V. Murray, featuring performances by Rodney Green, Jennifer Jackson, Miara Simpson and Brandon Smith.

Makia Martin (25:13):

Production coordinated by Marley Newman and sound designed by Samantha Doyle. Sound mix by Ric Schnupp and our sound intern was Allen Linsey. The non-fiction portion of this episode was produced by FRQNCY Media with dialogue editing by Sydney Evans, and mixing by Matthew Ernest Filler. Our theme music was written and performed by Alicia Kaye Hall, Jeffrey Archie, and B.I.G. Patty. This podcast is available on Spotify, apple podcast, Google podcast, and wherever podcasts are found.